French Open 2012 Thread

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Guest on Wed 6 Jun 2012 - 11:08

Andy Murray is expected on court at around 3pm (UK time). Aggression is the key for Murray. If he can play with the same anger and aggression as he displayed in the final two sets against Gasquet he will win. If he goes the passive route he will lose. I am working so won't get to see the match. Sad

Best of luck Andy. Will follow it on my phone apps.

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Jubbahey on Wed 6 Jun 2012 - 20:45

Capitulation, loss of concentration, clueless, sulky, bad tempered.

All strong descriptions, but nonetheless, an accurate appraisal of that match.

There were moments of clarity, focus, determination and guile, but all too seldom and at the wrong times. Not sure why he chose to throw the towel in after the rain break, but that more than sums up the change of play from his racquet. He became nervous and tentative, tactically weakened his attack for no apparent reason and went into meltdown when he has shown recently that he was bigger than the occasion, but today, he was almost overawed by it all, and sunk into his shell once more.

In my opinion, if the 2nd set was anything to go by and the style of tennis he played then, he had the measure of Ferrer and he could have won this match today. He took the tiebreak playing the kind of shots that took Ferrer out of contention, why he suddenly decided to play another kind of game is weird. Ferrer did nothing unusual, nothing that he doesnt do day in and day out.

Murray just lost it, completely and IMO threw the match away. At times he looked like he would walk off the court and begin another career or beat himself up again just to add insult to injury. I'm fast becoming disillusioned with Andy, after his match with Gasquet and the powerful game he played that day, I can't comprehend his complete turnaround.

It's all becoming a too regular factor of his tennis these days, his moments of apathy will never allow him to lift a trophy (not while the likes of Djokovic display the kind of tennis that pushed him through the match with Tsonga) and in that I think Lendl will more than likely part company with Andy after the USO, if he doesn't manage to change it around. Lendl's reputation is going to take a severe dent if he continues to associate himself with this kind of attitude from Murray at crucial times in slams.

Prove me wrong Andy by all means and I'll publicly announce my opinion as rubbish.

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Guest on Wed 6 Jun 2012 - 21:00

I think the work with Lendl is still a work in progress, and is to some extent the cause of the problem. People have said for years he needs to be more aggressive and to improve his forehand: well, he played aggressively, and the forehand is massively improved but still inconsistent. I never expected instant results. Playing aggressively while being unable to control his shots - and don't forget the wet clay made the ball very heavy, Ferrer would be more used to that - he made lots of unforced errors, very unlike him.

I couldn't help wondering if he had agreed with Lendl on the aggressive strategy, was easing back a little into his own ways before the rain break, but then he would have the opportunity to have a word with Lendl in the break. I'm only guessing of course but if Lendl said he needed to stay aggressive to get used to playing that way, it could have explained what happened.

Frankly he got a set more than I expected. I always thought it would take time to alter his mindset, if it ever happens, and I'm content to wait longer to see the final outcome.

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Guest on Wed 6 Jun 2012 - 22:16

I cannot judge as I was working so can only go by the live commentary by BBC website. If he went down playing aggressively then that is a positive for me. It is the first set he has won off Ferrer on clay and shows that the aggressive route is the way he has to go. Try passiveness against Ferrer and he would have lost in straight sets. Downside was that he had his chances and either never took them or threw them away. Lets be honest though he was never going to beat Nadal so at least it gives him an extra two days to prepare for the grass court season where his chances of success are much better than on clay.

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Guest on Thu 7 Jun 2012 - 11:15

Andy dropping hints in the press that he may withdraw from Queen's in order to fully prepare for Wimbledon. I am in two minds about that. It is very good news in that it would allow his back injury to hopefully improve but on the other hand means he is going in to Wimbledon devoid of any grass court tennis apart from that in practice.

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Guest on Thu 7 Jun 2012 - 13:28

Jubbahey wrote:
It's all becoming a too regular factor of his tennis these days, his moments of apathy will never allow him to lift a trophy (not while the likes of Djokovic display the kind of tennis that pushed him through the match with Tsonga) and in that I think Lendl will more than likely part company with Andy after the USO, if he doesn't manage to change it around. Lendl's reputation is going to take a severe dent if he continues to associate himself with this kind of attitude from Murray at crucial times in slams.

Prove me wrong Andy by all means and I'll publicly announce my opinion as rubbish.

Sadly, Jubba, I think Andy will prove you right.

Thanks for this thread, everyone. I've only managed to catch glimpses of Andy at this FO, but I've kept up with it all on here

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Jubbahey on Thu 7 Jun 2012 - 22:27

Well, I think Murray illustrated his Jekyll and Hyde character to perfection against Ferrer.

I expected him to take Ferrer a lot closer that the score in the end, that it was such a capitulation in the last 2 sets indicates his ability to cast aside convention, ie, his talent, and go for the ridiculous rather than the attainable. Not sure if this is an inbuilt need to self detonate or its a manufactured part of his new approach, but wet clay does not make a bad tennis player. He had the same conditions, maybe not so wet, but made the transition in his game to overcome Gasquet (who went into his own spiral fall into oblivion). I saw a replay of the Ferrer match later and listened to the after match comments from the TV pundits.

Something was awry after the break and it was quite obvious to them, not me, but it was plain to see that Murray backed off on Ferrers 2nd serve and was playing a strange passive attack that left the ball short, had no speed and left him open to all kinds of trouble. Its the same thing he did with Nadal at Wimbledon in the semi's. Many said then they didn't understand the complete turnaround in his game and it happened again against Ferrer.

It was a tactical implosion and Lendl would never have advocated that kind of approach. He's has managed to go from ruthless to pathetic in 10 games.

Why ?

Can't say, apart from the fact that I think he accepts defeat or at least harbours an inferiority complex that he gives to players he thinks should beat him. He took the 2nd set off him playing the kind of tennis that has got him to many Slam finals.

He must get this monkey off his back and realise that he is as good a player, underneath it all, as any of the top 3 and at times can play even better. This self defeatism can not have any place in his repertoire and only his self belief about his abilities is going to get him the silverware. He must realise that Nadal, Djokovic and Federer are scared of him when he is in the mood. He got to the RG semis last year and that was not based on any luck, it was a hard earned and he deserved his place there. this year, going on form, he should have been in the semis again. The only difference that I saw with Ferrer that day, after the break, was he seemed to make a concerted effort to keep the ball in play rather than go for the winners all the time, which got him the 1st set, but lost him the 2nd in the end.

Murray on the other hand went backwards and never managed to get a look in with this new strategy.

If Lendl is going to do anything, its got to be based on the fact that Murray is as good or even better than the top 3 players and make him believe in himself and his abilities. I thought Andy had ADHD once, based on his lack of concentration, (actually it was Sols idea 1st) but I think it is something else now, I think it is broadly based on self deprecation and disbelief, I think it may be as simple as that.

If it is, it is definitely something that can be eradicated.

Is that what happened to Novak in the end ?

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Guest on Thu 7 Jun 2012 - 23:15

I think Andy is still very much a work in progress - evidence of a much better forehand can be seen but yesterday for sure it was misfiring, couple this with his back problems which I think are still troubling him and playing against one of the best clay court players he was very much up against it.

If and it may be a big if, he can get that first slam I am sure the disbelief will disappear.

Let's not forget he is the only British male player who is actually competing on the tour so he is constantly hounded and under the microscope by the media - he is playing in an era consisting of three of the greatest players ever to play the game so to have achieved what he has so far most others would die for.

He certainly gives his followers a run for their money albeit on a roller coaster at times, but he is one of the few who is usually always at the latter end of most tournaments.

Let's hope he can get that slam but if not he doesn't he will still go down as one of the best players not to have won one - let's hope tis isn't the case.

He has held on to being the Worlds no.4 player for the last four years which in itself is. No mean achievement.

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Guest on Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 11:18

Well said, BOO. I agree with every word.

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Guest on Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 14:39

I never caught up with the highlights of the match (due to end result) by by all accounts Andy played an aggressive game which is good to see and is the way forward for him to go. The reason he lost was that his implementation of shots wasn't good enough as in he hit too many unforced errors. Now he started passively against Gasquet and was in danger of getting beaten then he got riled bringing out his aggressive game and his shots were better implemented and he therefore blew Gasquet off the court. Past matches against Ferrer has seen Murray be far more passive on clay and he has always lost in straight sets whereas this time he did win a set due to a more aggressive gameplan. Further evidence it has to be the way forward.

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Jubbahey on Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 15:28

Yes, I may have been a little over critical, but to be fair, his UE count was so high, it must be indicative of underlying problems.

A new tactical regime, carrying an injury, wet clay, whatever, it may be a combination of all or some, but something is not quite firing correctly.

If as many of you have said, its work in progress, why take Queens off ?

He needs to practice and get court time, if its to do with his back, I think all of us here agreed he should have kicked RG out of his calendar and concentrated on getting his back in order for the rest of the season. So I'm not so sure his back injury is playing such a huge part in his bad sessions.

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Guest on Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 15:41

I would say that the more aggressive game will always see more unforced errors as you go for more outright winners - that has always been the case. Now the other day I would say that was the reason for a higher amount of unforced errors coupled with him not quite getting consistency in those shots. Now I would say that is purely because it is not his natural game and so is going out of his comfort zone. I do think that the more he practices and plays this more aggressive style then the more he will become comfortable with it. I have noticed as well that when he gets in the groove (like against Gasquet) his serve improves immeasurably. Let hope he carries on with this aggressive style - it is the only way he'll unsettle and beat the big three.

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Guest on Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 20:00

I've been watching the FO on foreign shores, and whilst not harping back to previous rounds, he was never in any way fit enough to win this, not with Rafa in his half. Rafa is hot right now and blew Ferrer away today. Djokovic and Federer played a pretty dismal match by comparison and it would need to take Nole to be anywhere near his best to beat Rafa on Sunday and I just don't see it. So all in all I'm not too disappointed with Andy's tournament.

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Jubbahey on Sat 9 Jun 2012 - 2:39

Hope you had a great break in Euro crazy Greece ! wasn't too expensive I hope.

As for Murray, I just hate it when he loses it all. His timing goes out the window, his focus disintegrates and his service goes East for breakfast.

Its so frustrating to watch him dismantle his own game and lay it bare for all to pound on. He is capable of so much more. I still stand by my opinion/conviction that he should have beaten Ferrer that day.

By contrast, Federer had a Murray moment too many as well. Djoko almost walked it from start to finish. It wasn't pretty. As for Ferrer, he put up less resistance than Murray would have done, it was almost as if somebody threw a switch and said, play as your ranks from today onwards.

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Guest on Sat 9 Jun 2012 - 8:12

There, I feel, are reasons why Murray's game fell apart though and it is all part of the learning process. He went down trying to implement a more aggressive game plan and I am pleased of that. Playing safety-first shots as he has in the past has always led to tame straight sets defeat - it is a style that never works against the top players and never will. Now playing aggressive he at least won a set on clay (his first) against Ferrer and if he had executed more of his shots better then the result would have been different. The more he plays in aggressive mode I do believe he will become more accustomed to it and shots and their execution will come more naturally to him.

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Jubbahey on Sat 9 Jun 2012 - 18:23

Aggressive is one thing CC and I applaud that, but I would have thought getting his service game in order first would be more beneficial.

Serving at 86% in and a win ratio in the 90's, when he played at his last clay tournie, says he has the swing to do it, but why it disappears off the radar needs to be addressed. Because without it, he is open to breaks and that won't win him many matches, however aggressive he plays.

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Guest on Sat 9 Jun 2012 - 21:35

When his aggressive game clicks though his serving seems to click as well. That certainly happened against Gasquet but not against Ferrer sadly. As I said it is all about consistency.

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Jubbahey on Sat 9 Jun 2012 - 21:55

The three C's.

Consistency = Confidence = Certainty

Which then begets consistency and the whole thing fuels itself.

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Guest on Sat 9 Jun 2012 - 22:17

Exactly and he will only get consistency if he continues to plough on with the aggressive approach. The more he plays it the more he will become accustomed to it.

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Jubbahey on Mon 11 Jun 2012 - 14:25

Fantastic result for Nadal. How did he do it, was it the rain break, bla bla bla...

Nah, he beat the No1 top player by guile and true grit. End of.

How many more will follow, Santoro thinks ten may be an attainalbe figure, for me 8 would be about right and put him firmly in the "Never get Beaten" record books. Anything else would be icing.

If you want a laugh, go see ja606 and the sad threesome. If ever I wanted to see somebody depressed and in abject denial, wallowing in self pity, then there couldn't be a finer triplet than Tenez, NitB and Wow. I almost feel sorry for them, in a slightly sadistic manner.

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Guest on Mon 11 Jun 2012 - 18:13

Sorry for them? Never.

Nadal could reach ten French Opens. He has a good five years left in him and at present there is no one even close to really challenging him on clay so still many chances for more RG titles which will edhge him very close to Federer's 16 slams total.

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Guest on Mon 11 Jun 2012 - 19:02

And with Rafa winning they now have old Roger winning Wimbledon and getting back to No.1 lol

I doubt that it will ever happen again as long as Rafa & Novak are both around.

Yes there was only going to be one winner today and that was Rafa - will be interesting to see how they both get on once they switch to grass.

However there could be a spanner in the works for all three, as this could well be Andy's big year! - (One must live in hope!!)

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Jubbahey on Mon 11 Jun 2012 - 21:18

As always BOO.

I had a dream once.....well, a daydream that Andy would win Wimbledon first.

Dreams do come true sometimes.

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Guest on Mon 11 Jun 2012 - 21:21

It is not out of the question for Andy. If everything comes together at the right time then there is no reason why he can't win Wimbledon.

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Re: French Open 2012 Thread

Post by Guest on Tue 12 Jun 2012 - 11:14

Belated congratulations to Rafa....King of the Clay

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