US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Guest on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 0:47

Jubbahey,

To be honest he hasn't looked on top form throughout the tournament and he needed to be on top form tonight to beat a player of Rafa's calibre hence why I wasn't confident.

He has the tennis tools it is his mental lapses that just totally kill his game.

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Jubbahey on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 0:57

I've just about come to the end of the road CC, I agree his level is not where it should be, but he had the perfect draw to get here and attain at least something akin to what he is capable of.

Dont know if I can be bothered to watch him play like this. There doesnt seem to be enough conviction in his shots, there's certainly a lot put into his preparation and training, but in games like this, in a slam, its getting more and more devoid of intent at the times he needs to keep it together.

Flashes of brilliance and packets of concentration just aren't enough to beat players like Nadal or Djokovic.

I've got to go now, but I'm not sure I will have the same optimistic outlook any more to watch his games in the same light or follow him with same same level of enthusiasm.

if he manages to come back from this, I'll eat my words with pleasure.

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Jubbahey on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 1:00

see you later peeps, gotta get some sleep.

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Guest on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 1:02

It is hard I agree but I just think a lot of it is the magnitude of the task in hand. The guys just above him in the game are just so much stronger in the mental side of the game. It is up to Andy and his massive team to sort that out or he'll end up slamless.

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Guest on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 1:21

At least he is going down fighting as Andy has taken the third set 6-3. Much better tactics in that third set.

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Guest on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 2:10

Rafael Nadal wins in four sets and sets up a US Open Final against Novak Djokovic. For Andy his wait for a first slam goes on.

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Guest on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 4:06

I'm not sure how long I will be able to stomach 606v2 tennis. Wow, Socal and Simple_Analyst are dragging it down with their childish drivel. What I have difficulty in understanding is why any sensible poster would wish to try to argue with them. These posters are not on the forum to debate but simply to assert their own stupidity.





Anyway I thought Murray gave the defending champion and ten-time multi slammer a good match. If Murray could consistently repeat his third set performance then he would win a slam.

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Guest on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 11:02

Just popped in to offer my sincere condolences and say albeit you know I am a Rafa fan but I do share your frustrations . I watched the first and half the second set and I couldnĀ“t watch anymore.The writing was on the wall... not because Rafa was beating Andy but that Andy was beating Andy yet again. I find it so incredible that we have a player who Rafa says is one of the most talented players on tour is incapable of harnessing that talent because he is so mentally immature.. He is., in my opinion, uncoachable. Anyone who is only half knowledgeable about tennis can see that one of the biggest talents that the GB have had is throwing it away. Sorry guys Im sure you dont need me to tell you this but as such staunch supporters of him you deserve so much more. He must have run out of excuses by now I feel for you

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Guest on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 11:20

haddie-nuff wrote:Just popped in to offer my sincere condolences ...



... Anyone who is only half knowledgeable about tennis can see that one of the biggest talents that the GB have had is throwing it away. ... He must have run out of excuses by now I feel for you

Your sentiments I am sure are appreciated on this board but as a half knowledgeable poster I have to disagree with you regarding the "throwing it away" and "running out of excuses bit". Such are the challenges of winning a two week seven round best of five set tournament with legends of the game, Federer and Nadal in attendance as well as the wannabe legend Djokovic. KK




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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Guest on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 11:39

Great game from Andy some stunning shots. Nadal got shots back that I don't believe other players would, except maybe Nole, but then not all of them. Nadal played so ruthless, if he plays exactly the same on Monday he is going to beat Nole no bother. Proud of Andy, getting to the semis was not easy task as he had a hard long match against Big John, and Nadal had Roddick, if it were in reverse order I wonder how much energy Nadal would have left! I'm sure Andy's back was causing some bother, could have been when he fell playing against Big John. I will be rooting for Andy till he hangs his racket up.

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Guest on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 11:56

Well I tell you what... Ill come back and retract all I have said when he wins a slam... I am not knocking Andy I would love to see him pull it off. and I know he can do it.. I am stating IMO what I believe to be his problem..and I know Im not on my own . I dont care how good Rafa played (and thats from one of his ardent fans) Andy will still continue to beat himself... Sorry but Andy does not have the mentality of the three players above him.. either you have it or you dont. My reasons for posting were sincere however I detect a note of cynicism ... Im sorry I bothered I wont in future

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Guest on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 12:02

Andy is Andy and he is unfortunately playing at a time when there are three great players at the top which on their day are exceptional.

He may never win that elusive slam but having made the semis in all four this year and to be beaten three times by a player that may possibly go down in history as the greatest of all time is no disgrace.

How many players would die to have accomplished what Andy has achieved so far in his career, never mind what Rafa & Co. have done.

Its a bit like being an Arsenal or Chelsea supporter (incidentally which I am not), waiting on winning the ultimate prize of getting the Championship League title.

So near at times and yet so far, but supporters should never give up in the hope that one day he or they may "crack it".

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Guest on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 12:58

haddie-nuff wrote:... Sorry but Andy does not have the mentality of the three players above him.. either you have it or you dont. My reasons for posting were sincere however I detect a note of cynicism ... Im sorry I bothered I wont in future

Try not to take the comment so personally, I was merely disagreeing with you. People disagree all the time and we all value others opinion. Yes Murray clearly has areas where he needs to improve on (mental focus as well as technically) but to say that he threw away victory against Rafael in this semi-final as well as against Federer and Djokovic in previous slam tournament finals is to detract from the performances and efforts of his opponent.



Not sure whether I should use the smiley or or

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Guest on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 15:23

Nore Staat wrote:I'm not sure how long I will be able to stomach 606v2 tennis. Wow, Socal and Simple_Analyst are dragging it down with their childish drivel. What I have difficulty in understanding is why any sensible poster would wish to try to argue with them. These posters are not on the forum to debate but simply to assert their own stupidity.





Anyway I thought Murray gave the defending champion and ten-time multi slammer a good match. If Murray could consistently repeat his third set performance then he would win a slam.

606v2 is only a polished version of the old 606 - You have Simple_Analyst who was (Catalan power on 606) most of his posts were/are anti Fed, Tenez likewise is anti Nadal, and on the fringes you have the "idiots" such as Josiah Maiestas, however with regards to Socal I find although very much a Novak man at least he doesn't go out of his way to insult other players or posters.

You cannot really take what is said about "Multi-Millionaire World Sports Stars, such as the top 4" seriously by someone sitting at a PC or Play Station.

Unlike some of the posters over there who seem to spend most of their time on the forum I now have a look at the posts now and again and try to avoid the temptation to respond to the "juvenile" attacks.

However you can always block a certain poster if you don't want to read any of their posts, but as I have always said tennis forums are a place for some who want to be heard and at the end of the day what is said will have no effect on what is or will happen in the real world.






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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Guest on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 16:27

Here is my take on things here. Yes Haddie-nuff Andy does mentally beat himself up on court and it doesn't help his cause at all. Andy is a perfectionist that much is known and he is very hard and demanding of himself. If he isn't playing the shots he wants to or to a degree of the highest quality then he beats himself up mentally and physically. It is akin to him wrestling with himself as well as trying to beat his opponent - a massive handicap. Last night that was evident as he was muttering to himself early doors as clearly he wasn't (for some reason) playing to his gameplan. The first two sets this was evident as Andy was playing too passively and sitting back a la Djokovic did V Federer at the start of their semi. Now when things clicked for Andy in set three he was mentally tuned in as he had found the gameplan firing aggressive shots at Nadal and attacking the net and it worked and makes it all the more frustrating he never started the match in that way. Even into the fourth set he carried on in this vain and very nearly broke at the start of the fourth but couldn't quite pull it off and by the time Nadal got the break the match was well over three hours old and Andy's arduous semi began to take its toll.

Now Boris Becker last night, I reckon was pretty much spot on with his summary. He said Andy needs to get into the habit of playing that aggressive, hard hitting tennis from the start of slams. He rightly says that Andy relies on his natural talent and passive ways to guide him through the early rounds and it is very successful for him. However, it won't get him past Nadal, Federer and Djokovic and so when he faces them he has the hard task of finding his range etc and it takes him time to get that going and by that time his matches against the big guns are largely over. I cannot argue with that and hopefully Andy can take that on board.

When Andy brings his aggressive game to court it makes him a match for anyone and we saw that again (too briefly) last night. Now Andy definitely has the talent to win a slam it is just a matter of tying up the odd loose ends and bringing his full package minus mental lapses to these tournaments. Obviously, disappointed but considering he has had a better year at the slams than Roger Federer he hasn't had a bad year at all - just that slam still eludes him.

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Jubbahey on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 16:29

So here we have the mental anguish and backash of dissapointment.

I know we are all decent posters, and I must say I was guilty of going ballistic last night when I posted my last comment.

If you had put me in a room with Andy, there'd not be much left of either of us. I am sure he is as frustrated as any of us, prob more by a mile, but such are the practicalities of following someone like him.

To all of us, he is the only thing, atm, in British Mens tennis that is worth bothering about, yes we may have some others in the pipeline, but for now, he's all we've got. And therein lies the rub, supporting a player who shows such brilliance and at times a world beater, but when the push comes to the shove, he lacks maturity.

Why he has to beat himself up all the time, to me shows too much concern with his faults and the world around him, if he could only focus with the same intensity he can produce in moments of pressure that have got him through difficult matches before, more consistently, then there is no reason why he can not perform like he did in the third set and beat the likes of Nadal etc with more efficiency.

I can understand what Haddie was saying and sympathise entirely with what she means, all the Rafateers went through a similar situation with Rafa a few years ago and now again when he plays Novak.

I saw the way in which he disposed of Isner, and during that match, he hardly came down on himself at all, played a very aggressive and consistent game but more importantly, kept his annoyances to himself.
He didnt show much emotion and seemed to be focused, apart from one set, entirely on playing his own game.
He played a similar match to the one this year at SW19, against the same player, albeit in a different order, but the result was the same.

I really thought he had sorted out his mental aberrations this year from the FO onwards, but Wimbledon exposed his frailties and again last night they were laid bare once more.

If I'd had a brick in my hand, the TV would not exist or the wall behind it.
I'm laughing now, but I really felt so down last night that I almost wanted to delete this forum (almost) and throw myself into the hands of the Anti-Murray brigade. But sleep thankfully put an end to that dilemma.

There must be thousands of us, who all think the same thing about Andy's current inability to believe in himself, his game, his talent and above all our belief that he is good enough to win a slam and beat the players who stand above him in the rankings.

They don't lie, he is no4 for a reason, he lacks the mental approach that the other three excel in. And its this maturity that he needs to improve on, not his strength or stamina or skills, but the right approach and have a belief in his game that allows him to perform at his very best, all the time.

It may be too late for him to achieve that, it may be time for him to concede that he is not strong in all the depts needed to win a slam. Maybe.

If he can get a coach he will listen to, if he can begin to curb his in built self critical attitude, then maybe he can turn it around. It may need only one game or a title to prove to himself he has the tools to win a slam, but for me, its a shot in the dark to do it on his own. He needs help, now, and he has to admit he needs it, not to the rest of the world but to himself.

And in that I wish him the best of luck, but for me, I've run out of steam for enthusing his opportunities in events to come. I'll follow and support him to the bitter end, I just can't drum up the same intensity any more.

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Guest on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 16:52

I have no doubt he has the talent that much to me is clear and people far more expert in tennis than me would agree. Now he is a perfectionist and so when things don't go as he wishes, even if he misses a tough shot, he comes down hard on himself. To me in those first two sets he was beating himself up as he knew he wasn't playing the right tactics and he went on in that vain and got angry. This finally brought aggression into his game in that third set and the danger factor of defeat and everything clicked and he was transformed into a tennis player capable of competing and beating Nadal (all too briefly) but all the same it was evident. He should take heed of Boris Becker's advice and play that attack-minded game from the start of the tournament and not just when he really needs it then that way everything is well-run-in and he knows the lengths to hit the ball etc. and when he gets that side of his game sorted I believe the mental lapses and mental turmoil will subside.

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Jubbahey on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 17:48

Totally agree CC.

There are many single minded people in the top echelons of tennis, but not many of them have the ability to concentrate on the positive side of their game and allow themselves to hit with confidence the majority of the time.

Federer exudes confidence, so does Nadal and Djoko and this has an effect on those players the other side of the net. Murray is up there, he can do it, but like you say, his one weakness is self criticism during a match and thats one thing the other 3 do not do, they focus on the next point, sure they get frustrated now and again and show the same kind of anger about their game as Murray does, but the frequency is nowhere near as high.

Not sure where he goes to sort this out.

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Guest on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 17:51

It is a big handicap he bears and it could end up leaving him slamless but that won't be because of lack of talent. He really needs to work on a solution and I think Boris's theory sounds very good to me.

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Jubbahey on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 18:09

Yeah, he could do it on his own, but he should have been doing that 4 yrs ago, before the rot set in. I don't think he has enough years left at the top of the game to retrain this facet of his style by a regimen of trial and error.

He really needs to lean on somebody to give him direction and support, and that means putting his trust in someone who he will have to look up to, and that may be difficult for a guy like Murray.

Lets face it, he has got to number 4 on his own back with help from his entourage, coaches and his family, but its all been down to him to put the hard work into practice, so there has had to be a certain amount of mental strength to get there, its that little side affect of single-mindedness that needs working on.

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Jubbahey on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 18:10

But yes, playing aggressive from the start is something he has to bring into his game. He's always been a bit of a slow starter.

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Guest on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 18:19

Jubbahey wrote:... It may be too late for him to achieve that, it may be time for him to concede that he is not strong in all the depts needed to win a slam. Maybe. ... And in that I wish him the best of luck, but for me, I've run out of steam for enthusing his opportunities in events to come. I'll follow and support him to the bitter end, I just can't drum up the same intensity any more.

I think when one overestimates his chances one tends to over-react to his loses. Listening to Murray's post match interview he seemed like a smart lad and he talked sensibly and he generally knows what needs to be done. He has grown up in a tennis family (his mother is a coach) he does know a lot about tennis and is surrounded by people who are experts in the game (imagine all the links Judy has etc). I for one won't write off the next four years of his career. I just hope all this negativity and complaint doesn't spread over to Murray. He could retire now if he wanted to.



Perhaps in four years time he might be joined by one or more of: Oliver Golding, George Morgan, Liam Broady and Kyle Edmund. In the womans game we have Heather Watson, Laura Robson and Eleanor Dean.



With regard to Haddie-Nuff I do get the sense of a disenchanted former supporter of Murray.

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Guest on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 18:40

To be fair Jubbahey it is a bit harsh to say the rot has set in.

I mean he has reached the semi (or better) of all four slams this year so hardly a rot. In fact his slam record this year has been even better than Roger Federer. Shocked

He really just needs to go out and attack. He has to be more ruthless from Round One of slam events and looking players such as Devvarman in the eyes and saying I am going to demolish you as I am world No.4 and after a slam and implement an aggressive game and keep that going throughout the tournament. If he can do that it is guaranteed he won't have too much to beat himself up over and when he faces the big guns he'll have his aggressive, attacking game well run-in and in the groove. It'll also enable him to start these semis and finals on the front foot and pressurise his opponents from the off.

Go on Andy. Try it. You might find you enjoy it. Wink

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Jubbahey on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 18:47



Yes , I am being harsh and in that way I think it has to be put to Murray that he'll never win a slam if he doesn't sort out this undeniable and obvious trait.

All criticism is negative if it looks at the bad side of something, but for me, its nbo use putting a brave face on defeat and saying the best man won, when he didn't play to his abilities, except for one set last night.

That is all I am saying, he can't do this on his own any more, he's got to a level which is splendidly high without a coach for most of the year, but not high enough to win a slam trophy.

He needs another ingredient into the recipe to finish it off.

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Re: US Open Schedule Top 4 and British watch

Post by Guest on Sun 11 Sep 2011 - 18:54

lol - Andys fans pick up sore heads from his semi defeat by Rafa.

Andy picks up in the region of half a million dollars for six days work.

Can't be bad, multiply that by four for the other slam semis this year!

I am sure countries like the USA, France, Germany, Italy to name but four would love to have a player who could achieve this, however we know that although he is the only one this country has at the top level, we expect and demand more - maybe we expect too much, who knows!

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